This is a peaceful parenting blog. We don’t support Spanking.

This morning is one of those mornings where I wish I could be some kind of brilliant yogi or monk or some such as I have needed all the patience I have to communicate with a mother who spanks on the facebook wall.

I know internet communication can be hard, we don’t have the person in front of us so we cant see facial responses or hear the persons tone of voice. I wish everyone if they are going to assume something would first assume that the person they are not agreeing with is their best friend who cares about them and wants to talk about things with them with a calm and peaceful voice.

I wish Julie would have known how peaceful and yet interested in your perspective and interested in talking about this topic I was when it first began. By the end of it though, I was really just trying to figure out how I made myself a target for her aggression.

The image that started it all:

Caption: “What’s done to children, they will do to society.” – Karl Menninger

Comments:

Julie R  I guess I just don’t agree with that statement.

Kimberly I really do agree with it. I observe it all the time and I think many people do see it without putting 2 and 2 together. “Children who were spanked more than twice a month were 50 percent more likely than those who weren’t spanked to develop aggressive behaviors.”http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/04/12/another-reason-not-to-spank-raising-a-bully/12797.html

» Another Reason Not to Spank: Raising a Bully – Psych Central News

psychcentral.com

A new study continues to add to the pile of research that suggests that parents…See More

A Little Crunchy  While I can see how those who spank might not agree with the direction of those statements are “Violence begets Violence” and “What’s done to children, they will do to society.” I wonder what about those two things that seem like facts to me are not agreed with. Do you not believe violence begets violence? Or do you not believe what we teach children will effect society? Or is it not about the statements but that you think spanking has no negative consequences for the child and society?

Julie R. does an abused wife beat others? no, so the statement violence begets violence is not really a correct statement. I also believe that a swat on the behind is not violent… it can be a small reminder to a child that there are consequences to your actions that you will not like if you continue to do the thing you were told not to. If a child is a bully to it’s parent and the parent has never spanked that child then where did he learn that behavior? I have seen children slap their mothers and their mom gives them a time out… and the child turns around and continues to do it. I have 3 older children each of whom got spanked at least once in their life. They are all doing quite well and are not violent. I am not violent and I never beat my children. I don’t even like to argue or yell.

Sara Rose The problem is, this is hard to study, both in terms of how severe and how frequent. Considering a lot of people spank out of anger, I would suggest just refraining from it. Time outs don’t work for some kids. Some need positive reinforcement, like change being added to a jar or a sticker chart rather than being stuck in time out.

Debi B.  Having been an abused child, I feel this is sometimes true, but also there are a lot of us who would never spank/beat our children under any circumstances. Seems to be either one extreme or the other.

A Little Crunchy  Debi B I agree, one response to being hit is to either choose to not do the same or to be violent as well. I have seen both but more common it seems, the violent behavior just keeps going. It one justs swats ones wife is that not considered violence? Why? Because of her age? As for adult women being hurt by husbands the dynamic of that situation tends to be that the wife is not prone to violence, with children, we are creating their reality and teaching them, they are always watching and learning. If the child a bully to a parent they learned it from daycare, school, media, or simple trial and error on their part that by hitting mom they get a certain reaction. Of course putting a violent child in time out isn’t going work…. who would think it would? They are just going to sit there and let their anger seep into who they are. They are going to spend that time planning how not to get caught or how next to react out of anger. Some children spend that time on self deprecation and that can be harmful as well.

A Little Crunchy 99% of those who spank and abusers say they are not doing it out of anger and are only “swatting” the child. They all have “reasons” for it…

Chelsea D. every child in my family, including me was spanked with a hand, switch and belt. We was not beat. A spanking is NOT the same as beating. A spanking makes a child learn that if they do something bad then there is gonna be a spanking. Saying you will put them in time out or take a star off their chart does not work

Julie R Well, duh, you are not going to spank a child when you are happy with them! such a silly statement. Of course they are angry, just as a parent is angry with a child when they give them a time out, or send the child to their room, or put them on restriction. so I guess I must be the 1% that says I did spank out of anger… and I did have reasons for it … just like I did when I gave them a time out, or sent them to their room or put them on restriction. I used all of the above at different times depending on the problem with the child.

A Little Crunchy Is it so unimaginable that there is a different and effective way of parenting beyond doing what was done to us as children?

Julie R well since you just stated that you were spanked as a child do you think you are violent?

Julie Rand to answer your question, no it’s not unimaginable that there is a different way of parenting, but that was not remotely what the original post was about.

Patricia B. I have a hard time with this statement. Yes children learn what we teach them, but by the logic of the statement itself I should be a child molester. Just some food for thought.

A Little Crunchy As Debi B. pointed out, some of us go in the opposite direction. As a child and teen though I certainly was violent, as was my brother who went on to be a career criminal actually. Thankfully by the time I had kids I was sure I would do things diff…See More

A Little Crunchy My comment asking about a different way of parenting was in reference to Chelsea D. stating that putting them in time out taking stars off their chart does not work. Peaceful parenting goes so much further beyond time outs and reward systems though. Most don’t take the time though to learn different ways, they do just what their parents did. So the cycle goes.

A Little Crunchy Patricia B, it sounds like your not aware that most child molesters where themselves sexually abused. Again, as Debi pointed out, some people go in the opposite direction. That doesn’t mean that violence does not beget violence.

Julie R. yet, your post did not say that, your post said “Violence begets violence” and I simply said I did not agree with that. That’s when you took it to another level and tried to belittle me because I thought differently than you did. My children are 22, 18 and 17 and do not do drugs, have not got knocked up, have been good kids and they still cuddle with me and know that I love them dearly and everything I have taught them was for them to learn from, one way or another. If they chose to raise their children in a different way so be it, if they chose to raise their children the way they were raised then that too would be their choice.

A Little Crunchy I am sorry you took my questions or maybe responses or opinions that are different than yours as belitting you. Can you please let me know just what I posted that made you feel that way so I can be aware of it?

Julie R What you said “While I can see how those who spank might not agree with the direction of those statements are “Violence begets Violence” and “What’s done to children, they will do to society.” I wonder what about those two things that seem like facts to me are not agreed with. Do you not believe violence begets violence? Or do you not believe what we teach children will effect society? Or is it not about the statements but that you think spanking has no negative consequences for the child and society?”

Julie R ^ to be broken down momentarily

Julie R While I can see how those who spank might not agree with the direction of those statements are DEMEANING MUCH? OF COURSE THOSE WHO SPANK MUST STILL BE STUPID THEY STILL SPANK.

Julie R “Violence begets Violence” and “What’s done to children, they will do to society.” I wonder what about those two things that seem like facts to me are not agreed with. YOU MUST BE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I GET IT AND YOU DONT…. I MEAN ITS OBVIOUS RIGHT? THEY SEEM LIKE FACTS TO ME HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY NOT AGREE WITH ME???

Julie R Do you not believe violence begets violence? Or do you not believe what we teach children will effect society? SINCE I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW STUPID YOU ARE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND

A Little Crunchy Those questions are belittling? They are intended to be explorative but it is clear you that you did not take them as such.

A Little Crunchy I have not attacked you personally and yet you feel the need to attack me personally? Your assumptions are wrong and I am sorry you feel what ever it is you feel about the topic (I don’t know you so again I will not assume here) that is making you react this way.

Julie R that you couldnt just let me disagree … you had to have a really rude come back for it. I am not attacking, just putting up a mirror so you can see what you look like.

Gerald C – It is foolish to not think that what we experience shapes who we become. However our culture has sadly delfaulted to a “standard-template” notion which fails to account for the inherent individuality of each; silver and gold have very different properties; both useful and elegant in their own way, both composed of the same basic subatomic elements, yet radically different in ordering. It is also foolish to overlook the total picture of one’s experience. Where did the child “learn” to hit when the parents never did? Television. Other parents. Books. Other children. Bad dreams. Nature, it is a natural reflex to lash out instinctively, we do not have to be taught. Yet just because it is natural or instinctive does not mean it is right. Defecation is natural yet we easily accepted that we must be trained to hold it for the right time and place; how hard is it to consider that anger (and arrogance) should also be trained unto temperance? This is the foundation of humility and grace. So many things go into what we remember and how it shapes us: frequency, intensity, balance, the emotion expressed by the actor, the environmental circumstances, the sequence of events and the inevitable mental and emotion analysis that ensues. Yet there is never a time when there exists only one way, never a place with only one path… those which seems so are artificial, built, not inherently real. In the end, it takes no effort at all to lash out. In the presence of alternatives, lashing out is weakness and cowardice. The notion that children need to be “prepared” for life in this way is also shortsighted. Everybody needs support and this conveyance should always be sought. Life will teach us all its own lessons in its own time and own way. Our job as parents is to be there when they fall so we can help them through it. The drive to make them self-sufficient is merely a reflection of our own selfishness in wanting a return to the illusionary freedom we have built for our selves (and been raised to believe is real). While it may be natural, or seem successful or purposeful, violance is a failure every other instrument of national and personal power (look up DIMEFIL). As above, so below; how we act, our nation will act; as we inflict, so shall we be afflicted. In the interest of better intelligence and skill, peace and community, shouldn’t non-violence be the default?

A Little Crunchy I posed questions to help me understand just what you where disagreeing with. My response was not rude, no matter what words or things you want to assume about it. You are attacking me. The difference is that I asked questions about and idea, you jumped to making assumptions, calling me veryablly abused and abusive and talking about beating my children?

Julie R I did not say you beat your children … I was saying you chose not to … lol

Kristy N  S. I agree with Julie

Gerald  Julie, sadly your mirror is a bit inaccurate. It’s kind of bendy and twisty, explaining why you could possibly be offended by a question.

Julie R Even when Patricia B posted she did not agree with you, you tried to tell her that she was wrong. Did you even really read what she posted. She was stating she was molested as a child. Your response to her “Patricia B, it sounds like your not aware that most child molesters where themselves sexually abused. Again, as Debi pointed out, some people go in the opposite direction. That doesn’t mean that violence does not beget violence.” HELLO… you are too busy fighting to be right then to let others have an opinion different than your own.

A Little Crunchy Kristy N S, it is nice that friends like you and Julie Rininger agree on certain things together. Julie seems to have a negative opinion of me and I doubt I will ever be able to say anything she likes. You don’t have to stay on this site of course, it is a peaceful parenting fan site for my blog and spanking is simply not peaceful parenting. This doesn’t mean that other kinds of parenting makes for bad parents but this is what this site is about supporting.

Gerald  Julie, sadly your mirror is a bit inaccurate. It’s kind of bendy and twisty, explaining why you could possibly be offended by a question.

A Little Crunchy Julie R. what are you trying to gain from this? As I said nothing I say will be “ok” with you. Patricia was sharing her experience and I was sharing that some in her situation (Almost all males so the studies say) do show that sexual violence begets sexual violence. Again, I am talking about ideas, theory, studies, not personal people. Just because we have an experience that is contrary to a statement does not mean the statement does not have some validness to it. I am not “fighting” anyone I am talking about an idea. If you want to talk about ideas your welcome to stay, if your aiming for something else at this point, I can only guess, I will ask that you leave. Peaceful parenting doesn’t sound like it is your cup of tea.

Julie R nope, I agree, I think I raised my kids just fine and here is an idea to ponder with your theory of ideas if you hand your children thermometers and doctors items when they are little will they grow up to be doctors? I have unliked the page so no need to ask me to leave. I wont be back after this is done.

A Little Crunchy Wishing you peace with your parenting choices. Not every path is the same and you are entitled to yours.

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I still clearly need help communicating with those who are or who I think are (Because my perception could be wrong) hostile. Not sure I will ever get there. Some topics though are important enough to keep trying to talk about, even if those talks are hard.